I’m open to all suggestions for, as you know, I believe that a political solution will be required. Even complete Anarchy would still be a government and would develop bureaucracy over time. When it comes to self governance, I am of a similar mind as Mr John Addams, who often wrote that the educated man may best elect and address his own affairs but that an ignorant mob was ever the enemy of society and democracy. At this time, I’m not so enamored of the populace and their efforts at informed debate, therefore I lean more toward a representative democracy until such time as education becomes our primary concern instead of warfare.

I’ll be the first to admit that the Green Party is still as disorganized as it ever was. If we are to have any REAL influence on next years elections, we had better start vetting candidates RIGHT NOW. Otherwise, we will be in the default position of voting for one party or the other. I implore everyone to not give in to the people saying that elections do not matter, that voting is a sham. No one does them self any good service by abandoning their voice and their vote. That ensures that others will chose whom they will and it might have disastrous consequences.

For every person fighting on the streets 10 to 100 or more are sympathetic. My friends and I are between 30 and 40. We have day jobs and families. We just can’t occupy and I’m sure that pisses some folks off. If I was in their position it would probably piss me off too. However, I hope they realize this;

Many of us have been at this struggle in the political arena for the last 10+ years. Some of my long time activist friends are supportive, even while they have a some what ”glad you caught up to the class” attitude. For us, activism has been a big part of our lives and it always will be. It’s not much of a career but it needs to be done because as soon as a movement thinks they have won, they get undermined and the process starts all over again. As evidence I give you the 2010 elections.

Please refer back to the Gilded age of the 1880s and 1890s for an example of what you wish for would look like. DE-regulation empowered corporations to abandon their ethical fiduciary responsibility. Your wistful pining for days gone by is misplaced. Your precious founders knew that corporations and the unfettered pursuit of wealth was dangerous to a free Republic. They are not here anymore. Can we please live in the present and not the past?

Germany is a country that you might call a socialist democracy. They have a central bank owned by the government. They also have private banks with private owners. They are currently the most powerful economy in Europe. While the Federal Reserve is rife with corruption and in desperate need of auditing and overhaul, the 1913 horror story is getting old and tired as is the Socialism bogey man.

There is nothing wrong with state sponsored infrastructure, public works and public utilies. And, YES, they are socialist. But so what? The opponents of the public sphere offer up no sanguine argument against these things other than fear tactics and slander. Can we try some reasoned and rational arguments?

Politics is a 24/7 endeavor. If you want better candidates, you have to get them involved before the primaries. Every conflict requires a political solution. If you don’t like the current Democrats, perhaps consider voting Green.

Imagine what could be done with a majority in both houses of people like Senator Sanders.

Or perhaps I should have called them Golden Calf Conservatives

The Instability of Inequality

I understand that many people want this to be a non partisan movement for social justice, etc… However, historically one party has consistently opposed economic equality in favor of hyper individualism and the freedom of the strong to exploit the everyone else. Their mantra is; It’s your choice. This basic philosophy ignores the reality that we do not all have the same choices, resources and opportunities by pretending that everyone has equal opportunity.

The reality is that the owners of our society control what choices the majority may pick from, from the cost of living to access to education. They trot out the occasional life lottery winner as weak proof that anyone can succeed. Just because one person can beat long odds does not mean that anyone can do it. Historically, one group has worked for political empowerment of the most disadvantaged people and it is not the GOP. Sure, sure, many corporate Dems have fallen into the same trap but they are a reflection of the ’red states’ they come from.

The struggle for economic justice is a political struggle. I personally see it as a clash of cultures; One of hyper individualism where caring for others is evil and enables their self destruction by depriving them of honest work in favor of government dependency, ultimately ending in their complete enslavement and the end of all freedom and liberty. The other where our inherent interconnectedness is recognized and enhanced, where all people are given real opportunity as evidenced by many stories of success, not just a few lottery winners. Or as I like to call it, the culture of Sharks verses the culture of Bees.

Let us not say contradict but merely disagree. My experience with politics leads me to believe that being an outsider accomplishes nothing. The bureaus that do not get elected indeed do not care over much for who holds office. I saw that first hand when I was in the Navy and Clinton got elected. However, I have no faith in change coming from the streets, no matter how many people take to them. The status quo will just wait you out, in their comfortable ivory towers.

I respect your effort and your tone. I apologize for any offense given. I get too easily frustrated. We all want to same goals, more or less. How we get there is very important, in my estimation. This is a huge chess game and it’s time we all started thinking N moves ahead.

God, how I wish people (This pirate guy, not you.) would stop blaming Clinton for the Newt Gingrich Congress. I’m not a big Clinton fan but to hang all the blame on him to prop up this ”A pox on both their houses” meme is just silly. It’s the same as blaming Obama for the Tea Party congress he has now.

There IS a difference between the political parties, they are called the progressive caucus.

Nice gain saying and sloganizing. Did you bother to read my earlier post above? What I have accepted is the reality that I perceive. Again, being a green in the 90s did NOTHING but get GWB elected!!! By rejecting the parties, you are rejecting the levers of power.

What are you, or anyone else, going to do from the outside? Seriously, what the FUCK are you going to do? Where is the REAL pressure? Who ARE you going to vote for? Would you rather not participate and abdicate the vote to others who will elect more TEA Party fanatics? Do you want to spend 8 to 10 years building a viable third party from the ground up, state by state? If you do, great, I’ll be right there to help.

However, if you want some more immediate results, stop worrying about being co-opted by the democratic party and CO-OPT the democratic party. Drag them, kicking and screaming if needs be, to our way of thinking. NOW is the time to be getting the people we ACTUALLY WANT to vote for on the ballots. Primary the corporate Dems with REAL progressives who will put people before profits and hold the crooks accountable. Governing is not about protesting in the streets, it is about putting policy into effect. If you abandon the halls of government, you have no seat at the table and no voice in the conversation. You’re just and outsider and you change nothing.

This ’plot’ stinks like the Gulf of Tonkin. Israel wants Iran neutralized and so do the Saudis. It’s not hard to see the spooks orchestrating this, posing as a Mexican Mobster, finding the perfect guy to lead by the nose. Yea, it stinks.

While I do not disagree with what you have said, it impresses me as being quite defeatist. I hear; nothing will ever change and all your voting efforts are useless, might as well not even try. I understand that may not be your intent but that is your impact upon me. I too am sick of corporate suits running the government but, short of an actual bloody revolution in the early French style, I can’t see it changing without political action and involvement.

During the 90s I was a green party supporter. What did that get me? George W. Bush. If we shun the only party where we can affect some real change in the short term, nothing will change much and we might get a repeat of 2010. Do we want more Tea Party morans just because we are not happy with the Democrats? I do not.

If we truly are the 99% and if we truly are an unstoppable groundswell of activism that will sweep away the corruption, then we need not worry about being co-opted by the Democratic party. We out number them. We will co-opt them!

It’s possible, but it will take more that a maybe to convince me.

Exactly! The problem here is that everyone is individually looking out for #1, the self. This is a follow on effect from the most selfish generation to ever walk the earth. Our only hope is to break to societal strangle hold that selfish individualism has on our country.

A pox on both their houses is a recent meme that only servers to weaken the Democratic party at a time when an entire generation will never vote for a Republican. You are being played.

I disagree with the entire ”Pox on both their houses” the left/right are all the same meme. The only side that benefits from that rhetoric is the GOP. The Dems are facing a generational ground swell of my generation, who have grown up under Reaganomics and KNOW that nothing ever trickles down. So, now that the GOP faces irrelevance, suddenly both parties are the same and ’we don’t need no left right’ blah blah blah…

For the last 40 years they only people trying to defend the little guy against the entrenched power of corporate America have called themselves either Liberals or Progressives. Have their been pandering corporate democrats? Absolutely. However, to suddenly embrace a philosophy of 0 political affiliation is pure political suicide. Don’t think so? Check out the effective track record of every single third party. They do NOTHING.

Like it or not, this movement has exactly two choices. One, they can accept that as long as they distance themselves from all political parties they embrace political irrelevance and their movement will die. Two, they can hold tight to their ideals, screw their courage to the sticking point and co-opt the Democratic Party. It is much easier to stage an insurgency in one party than it is to start an entire new party.

Any Rep or Senator can introduce any bill for any reason at any time. Most of them go no where. The fact that a bill exists means nothing.